An offensive in a war is right and justified it it is done to further the campaign or to secure those who were trapped behind enemy lines. An offensive that targets civilians is not right and not justified. That is the classical definition of a war crime. The Israeli government, under a madman, is intent on seeking peace by annihilating the enemy. In other words they think that peace can only be had when there are no longer any more Palestinians. Those are the thoughts of a criminal mind. I know that we must allow for Israel to defend itself, and yes, Israel has many enemies, but what it is now doing is not defending itself, it is more akin to a genocide, and that cannot be tolerated.
I support Israel, always have. I have admired their ability to survive surrounded by those who want to destroy the Jewish state. I supported this war for many months. But now that they have cut off the head of the terrorist snake that had orchestrated such evil, I find it impossible to continue to support their attacks. Yes, those people in Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Jordan, might not be the nicest neighbours, but they have every right to live and to be whatever they want to, just like the Israelis. If there is to be peace there has to be coexistence.
Well, that is all for now, dear diary. Maybe tomorrow things will be different…
JaZzArt en València 
Un razonamiento que te honra y que ojalá fuera común a toda la comunidad internacional inoperante. Ninguna defensa puede avalarse con el asesinato masivo de población civil, personal cooperante, sanitarios, periodistas… Ninguna acción defensiva puede justificar el ataque a las Fuerzas de Paz de la ONU…. Las cien perdonas que todavía siguen en manos del terrorismo merecen la oportunidad de regresar a casa, de vivir.
Salud.
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Donde dice «perdonas» se refiere a «personas,»
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Vale
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De acuerdo.
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Nobody in their right mind wants to see innocent people killed Francesc but the real snake is still alive and kicking in Iran, aided and abetted by other monsters who wish to see, not just Israel, but the whole Western civilization obliterated.
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Yes, no doubt about it Malc. This is a snake whose head must be chopped off but by the people of Iran, just like they once fought to defeat and dethrone the Shah that ruled them. By killing everyone on the way to Tehran peace is not gained nor does it guarantee peace and security for the Western world.
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I think we both understand the underlying problem here Francesc but we may not entirely agree on how best to deal with it. I don’t believe for one minute that Israel or the Western world in general are blameless for the situation we find ourselves in – but we are where we are, and we’re having to face up to an extremely serious threat, both from within and without.
The Iranian (Persian) people have been crushed by fanatics that govern their country, and we even see it being carried out on the streets of London, so I’m not convinced that leaving it to the Persian people is the answer. I’ve never been one to endorse meddling in other country’s affairs, but they’re now starting to meddle in ours. Iran, Russia, North Korea and China are all in this together and they’re gathering up other nations along the way – and not by democratic means either,
Those of us who value a life free from persecution and domination by those who tell us what we are allowed to say, think or do have a real struggle ahead because these people who are against our way of living are already taking over – and we may well have to end up defending ourselves in the way Israel has to.
Getting around the table and sorting out differences is definitely the best way, but it can’t always be like that. We tried that with Hitler, but in the end it didn’t work. If only we were able to stop him before he became the tyrant he was, but this time around we have several to deal with – and not only that, here in the UK we have left ourselves unbelievably vulnerable.
Apologies for rambling on a bit here Francesc, but we all need to wake up before it’s too late.
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No apologies needed, and I understand your point quite clearly. Yes, we are facing a threat, but by Israel massacring innocent people the only thing that is happening is that it is making the threat (from radical Islamists) much worse. They are creating a new generation that is willing to support such lunatic tyrants (like the ones in Iran) even more. The fact that other tyrants (Russia and North Korea) join forces and stand together is a position that they take to assume more power. I don’t think that they are ready or actually even willing to match it with the power of the West. That is why I think that it is wiser, and safer in the end, to try to resolve differences in the Middle East, with peaceful means than to think it is possible to just wipe them from the face of the Earth. And yes, I think we all better wake up because there are many sleeping in their laurels and that allows for our enemies to move more boldly.
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It’s a topic that won’t end until the hostilities do Francesc. I used to understand the Palestinians point of view until Hamas carried out the atrocities last year, then my mindset changed. To hide themselves behind innocent people to protect themselves from the expected backlash while keeping hostages in underground tunnels went beyond any understanding I may have had. If they released the hostages tomorrow, then there could be an immediate ceasefire, but are there any left?
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It is hard to know if there are any hostages still alive, although it is believed so. I understand and I too felt the outrage, but eventually I saw that retaliation had gone way too far and that all Palestinians are not to blame, because half of them do support Hamas but the other side are held hostage by them and threatened. And also Palestinians are not all the same. Some are Muslims, some are Christians, some are Israelis, some even serve in Israel’s Knesset. So there is a mixed bag and they do not all deserve to pay for what a terrorist organisation has done. Just like the people of Lebanon do not have to pay for what Hezbollah is and what they are doing. In Lebanon there are many Christians and they are and have been persecuted by Hezbollah and many of them have fled the country. Little by little the Christian presence in the Middle East is disappearing because of the radical Muslims that are taking over. They are ruining the lives of all the people of the area. Israel started on the right track and I supported their war effort as long as it was against terrorists, but not like this. There were many times that the US Army could have eliminated hundreds of terrorists from Irak and Afghanistan, but they did not for the fear, and only the fear, that innocent civilians could be killed as well. One thing is war, where you kill the soldiers of the enemy, another thing is to massacre civilians. If the «bad» guys do it (and they do) we do not have to follow and do it as well.
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I fully understand what you say Francesc but I we have to start thinking about our own survival too.
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As we all should, you are right Malc…
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I appreciate the transition of your thought process while acknowledging your right to think whatever you want. As a student of WWII, the Holocaust was indefensible and the Jews were almost annihilated. I hate to perceive that they maybe repeating that same scenario with the Palestinians.
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It seems to me that your perception is correct…
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Thanks, Francisco.
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You’re welcome Pat!
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A pretty rigid assumption that the Israeli leader assumes annihilation of the enemy is his country’s only recourse. «The enemy» working from home bases protected by regional governments equally unhappy over the mere existence of the Israeli State demonstrate repeatedly they will stoop to heinous unprovoked crimes with no regard for civilian casualty. Israel’s enemy is NOT one interested in peaceful solution but as they have DECLARED repeatedly only in the complete elimination of all Israelis and the the Israeli state. What recourse has Israel to react with what «the enemy» understands – brutal force. I tire of liberals joining naked aggressors in whining when the offended party retaliates with like force.
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One cannot know what is actually in a leader’s mind, but it does seem as though «like force» is incorrect in this instance. I am struck by the idea that there is an «enemy» that can only understand force. I would think that hardliners on both sides take this view. It seems to stem from a kind of identification on both sides. It’s comparable to tribalism. On the one side is our side with its racial and cultural unity, on the other side is «the enemy,» whom we don’t want to understand – only destroy. There have been brutal attacks on civilians from both sides. The hardline leadership of Hamas is no doubt as you say, and the murder of the kibbutzim certainly reflected this. It was doubly tragic as the kibbutzim were the most likely to try to understand and work with their neighbors. There were at least a few among them who learned Arabic – the language of the land where their Zionist project was founded, after all – and a logical effort from those who genuinely want peace. For Hamas, the heinous crimes were not «unprovoked,» as they see Israelis as people who stole their birthright with the help of the international community. In such a situation, I would think that Israel’s best line of defense would be to get to know their neighbors, educate them about why they were always neighbors, culturally, even if some of Jewish faith had lived elsewhere for millennia, and explain that they had come in peace to try to create a society where all can live freely. Then they could share their prosperity and educational systems, while learning the native language of their adopted land. To do so, they would have to reach out to people who felt disenfranchised and robbed, but they could and in some cases did make the case for their belonging. If, when one takes a life, it is as if one has destroyed the whole world, then taking 42,000 civilian lives in retaliation for the taking of 2,400 is also a heinous crime. It is time for everyone to stop and cool off, and try to walk a bit beyond their prejudice.
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You have touched upon some very valuable points. I am not a profound scholar of the Middle East, but I do recall that during the era of Ehud Barack there seemed to be much more understanding and coexistence between Israelis (who are not all Jews) and Palestinians (who are not all Muslims). However, a hard line approach brings forth a hard line response from the «enemy» and this seems to be what has happened and what will continue. The damage that Netanyahu has created will, lamentably, last for decades. These people that he has killed as collateral damage to his justified war against terrorists, have surviving family members, perhaps young men and women, and they will grow up to hate the murderers of their parents and perhaps even to become terrorists themselves. So, you are right, trying to understand each other, dialogues with each other and peace is the only way to diffuse this horrible situation that, as we have seen, is growing and expanding. Thank you!
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Yes! Those are great points, too. Each side is full of complexity. To reduce either to simply ‘targets,’ is to be complicit in all of the horror. Thank you . And we cannot forget the irreversible harm to children, as you point out.
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True, quite right. Thank you! 🙏🏻
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Liberals? Do you think it is only liberals that are demanding that this genocide stop? And how can you assume that the Palestinians all want the destruction of the state of Israel? Many Israelis are Arabs. Many Israelis are Christians. Many are Muslim. Although it is a Jewish state it is a mixed society and in the Knesset there sits many Arabs (and we don’t know if they are Muslim or Christian). The rhetoric of «they want to drive Israel into the Mediterranean» is just that, bullshit! So please get your facts straight. First, this is not a liberal versus conservative situation, and second no one, no matter how liberal one may be, is defending the terrorist organisations, be they Hamas or Hezbollah. But the mission is over and unless the IDF stop their bombings the hostages left in the hands of terrorists will never go home. I have been in Israel (several times) in times when everybody got along quite well, so peaceful coexistence can occur. And, after all, Palestine had existed ever since the Romans expulsed the Jews and named the land Palestine. It was in 1948 that Western imperialist powers created the state of Israel by taking land from others. Before Israel many Jews lived among the Arab population in peace because Arabs and Jews are first cousins, genetically and historically.
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The purpose of war is to get in and get out. If Israel had been allowed to respond and get out, the conflict would have ended a long time ago.
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So true Dawn. Although I do think that Israel is doing a service to the Middle East and the world in general, they have to be more careful with civilians. Although I do suspect that many of those civilians that the «media» says were killed by IDF bombs were actually killed by the terrorists… All the best Dawn.
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